"After nearly two years of a grueling and ugly campaign, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois has proved that he is the right choice to be the 44th president of the United States."
-New York Times
OK, so basically my understanding was that you can say "Barack Obama proved ..." or "Barack Obama has proven," but not "has proved." Am I crazy?
(Side note: I want to have a discussion about quotation marks and commas sometime)
Also, now that I've been staring at the word 'proven' for the last two minutes, my brain is now quite sure I can't possibly be spelling it right. Really stare at that and try to convince yourself it's pronounced the way it is (then again, maybe it's just the font that is used when you create a post).
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Here's another question, one on which I'm sure I'll run into some opposition. So, the conventional wisdom is that if you're discussing a noun that begins with a vowel, you precede it with "an" as opposed to "a," as in "an obligation."
But my understanding is that whether it begins with a vowel is irrelevant; it's whether it begins with a vowel sound. I guess this distinction isn't directly important to my point, which was going to be that I can't stand hearing the phrase "an historical," as in, "from an historical perspective."
Perhaps if you live in England, where "I have to hunt to be happy" turns into "I 'ave to 'unt to be 'appy" you could say an historical, but otherwise, my understanding is it's just plain wrong. Nonetheless, it's something I hear very well-educated people say on a regular basis, so again, maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?
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Good catch on the Times' endorsement - looks wrong to me too. I also agree with you about a/an - "an historical" does not fly. But "an herb" is ok with me, thanks to the vowel sound.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what conversation you want to have, but I'm a proponent of commas INSIDE quotation marks, ALWAYS! Punctuation just outside a quotation drives me nuts.
All punctuation belongs INSIDE QUOTATION MARKS in such circumstances. Drives me crazy, too.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right, Chris, with has proven and proved and has proved. Has proven and proved are good, while has proved is not.
And I follow the rule "sounds like a vowel"
because of exceptions like "an historical..."
Has Bart yet commented regarding his issue with quotes inside quotes?? If not, Bart, I expect you to do so here, and it is the perfect place to start providing some of those examples...
PS this Friday afternoon is killlling me. I am watching the clock way too carefully.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Bart and I seeing William Easterly speak tonight during an event called "Rethinking HIV Prevention Strategy: Debating What Works."
"An herb!" That's what I was looking for! I was trying to think of an example where "a" preceded a vowel and where "an" preceded a consonant.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to find some examples of the comma/quotation mark thing, because I generally agree with the rule, but sometimes not. I'd need examples though.
Quick: two more pet peeves: "try and find" instead of "try to find" and "liable" instead of "likely" (Nate at 538: I'm looking at you on that last one)
Look, let me be clear: I am generally in favor of the standard rule on commas and quotation marks, but there are exceptions.
ReplyDeleteHere's one example, though it's much more of a muddy case and one I'd probably concede on if pushed, but I can't think of anything better right now. The case of lists, as in:
There have been plenty of comments during this campaign about John McCain's age, things like "he's old", "he's forgetful", and "he can't sent an email".
The period at the end I'd probably give up on, but I really don't see how putting the commas before the quotations makes more grammatical sense. Again let me emphasize though: this example is pretty weak for the point I'm trying to make, but it is in the right direction.